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Post by wildcatsgm on Apr 30, 2006 8:25:06 GMT -5
Phaneuf, Crosby or Ovechkin ? this one is probably more obvious but some might think differently.
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Post by nordiksgm on Apr 30, 2006 21:50:20 GMT -5
Ovechkin wins it.
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Post by knights on Apr 30, 2006 22:22:56 GMT -5
Ovechkin.
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Post by Oil kings GM on May 1, 2006 3:56:19 GMT -5
Ovechkin will win the Calder. He is the Washington team.
Unfortunately, Phaneuf in any other year would have won it.
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Post by Commish on May 1, 2006 18:48:29 GMT -5
What an amazing season. In any other year all 3 players would win the Calder (Ovechkin, Crosby, Phaneuf), but obviously only one trophy can be handed out, and I think that Ovechkin will get it based on his goal production and the team he plays for. I still think that Phaneuf is well deserving. Here is a dman that is only the 3rd rookie defenseman ever to record 20 goals in his rookie year. Not only that, but Phaneuf was arguably the Flames best dman all year, and as Pierre Macquire put it. He's a monster!
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Post by macchia on May 13, 2006 4:10:23 GMT -5
all 3 players ofcourse had stellar seasons....but many have forgotten crosby...he finished the year with 102 points, just 4 back of ovheckin...and also a year and a bit younger....crosby also had 63 assists which ranked him 7th in the league...ovheckin ranked 20th...as for goals...we all know ovheckin was ranked third in the league...but crosby put up 39 goals...which left him 12th in the league in goals. Also, Ovheckin scored more goals....but also took 425 shots. Crosby only took 278 shots and netted 39 goals. That makes Crosby's shooting percentage 14.0% and Ovheckin's 12.2%.
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Post by knights on May 13, 2006 7:06:50 GMT -5
I don't think having a lower or higher shooting percentage is an indication of a better player. For instance, Mike Ricci had a 20% of his shots resulting in goals through 78 games. 50 shots, 10 goals. Shooting percentage is more of an indication of players style, than players scoring ability. I wouldn't bring a shooting percentage into conversation concentrating on deciding whether player A is better than player B, unless, their styles were similar, which they aren't. Ovechkin led the league in shots, surpassing players like Kovalchuk, Jagr, Cheechoo... Important percentage in this conversation might be the chunk of teams offence that a player has produced. Ovy had 56 goals out of Washington's 237, which makes it about 25%. Pittsburgh's 244 are also largely dependant on Crosby's 39 (roughly 16%). NHL.com stats- Hits: Phaneuf having 203 hits, being the top banana in that category, Ovechkin with 172 (second among rookies) and Crosby with 66. Blocked shots: Phaneuf- 97 (8th for rooks), Crosby- 43 (25th as a rookie, 4th as a rookie forward), Ovechkin- 20. Takeaways: Ovechkin with 69, being the top rookie in this category, Crosby with 36, Phaneuf having 35. Giveaways: Ovechkin, this kid leads every category! Ovy with 88, as the top rook again, Crosby's 57 place him at #8, and Pierre Maguire's darling with 51. There will always be "he-had-more-support", vs. "he-was-two-years-older" rants. Nothing but speculation, as you know sometimes chemistry has its mysterious ways and players growth does not follow any predictable curve. I say take this season and throw out the ifs. Ovechkin wins, in my mind. I don't think I am alone there.
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Post by wildcatsgm on May 13, 2006 7:11:24 GMT -5
I agree
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Post by macchia on May 13, 2006 13:45:35 GMT -5
are u serious?...a better shotting percetage means he finishes more if his chances....
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Post by knights on May 13, 2006 14:16:12 GMT -5
Am I serious? Is that directed at a specific sentence, or my whole post? All I am saying is that the % means a different style, rather than difference in talent, especially if there is a big gap in shots taken. Do you stick to the rule of player with highest shooting % being the best one out there? In that case, NHL ranks as follows: MVP- Alex Tanguay. Runner up #1- Petr Prucha. Runner up #2- Anson Carter. #4- Mark Parrish. #5 Tomas Holmstrom.
"a better shotting percetage means he finishes more if his chances.... " That it does mean. What it doesn't mean, is that a player with a higher % is necessarily better than the one with lower. Player A simply might be one deflecting shots, generating a high %, then there is player B shooting from the point, having a low %, but shots resulting in rebounds, or tip ins for player A. Like I said, it is a far better indicator of different styles, than player being better worse. "a better shotting percetage means he finishes more if his chances.... " You have to also generate those chances, mmmkay? Thats where shots come in. NHL leaders in shots: #1 Alex Ovechkin, #2 Jaromir Jagr, #3 Olli Jokinen #4 Marian Hossa #5 Simon Gagne. The top 5 of % getters vs. shot generators- the latter group has a ton more points than the first. Now, if you have a ton of shots with a high % resulting in goals- you have a point, otherwise, if there is a large difference in shots taken- you re comparing apples and oranges.
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Post by macchia on May 13, 2006 18:28:24 GMT -5
crosby has the same number of goals as hossa and 1 more then Jokinen and crosby also took less shots...crosby is only 4 points back of ovheckin and has more points then the rest of the guys u said other then jagr...you are also comparing all these guys to a 18 year old....crosby is approx 7-8 years younger then these guys and doing just as good....as for the point totals...taungay only played 71 games...if he played 82 games his point total would be higher...
also u cant compare guys like prucha and carter to the guys u named..no doubt the guys u named are on a different playing level then prucha and carter...
BUT
if you compare CROSBY to OVHECKIN...Crosby scored on more of his chances then Ovehckin...we all know ovhrckins style of play..and its not point shots...he is a highlight reel player....Crosby is a better player then ovheckin and in 1.5 years to 2 years time this will show
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Post by macchia on May 13, 2006 18:29:05 GMT -5
also alot of you are also forgetting in the lockout year ovheckin played with men....crosby played another year of junior..so comming up to the NHL was a WAY bigger step then the jump ovheckin took
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Post by Commish on May 13, 2006 18:47:08 GMT -5
It really is a difficult thing trying to compare Ovechkin and Crosby. The simple fact is that Ovechkin is a year older then Crosby and has had that much more time to develop his game. I do think that Ovechkin is the better goal scorer, but as an overall player, I think I would prefer to have Crosby on my team. I think we can all agree that Ovechkin will more then likely win the Calder, based simply on the amount of goals he scored.
I stated this before though. I find it funny that in any other season all 3 players would (Ovechkin, Crosby, Phaneuf) would win the Calder, but this season, so many young players had outstanding seasons, and they only hand out 1 trophy.
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